Interview with Gen (rtd) James Jones, National Security Advisor, United States

Answer: “Well I think, that good relationship between countries start with good relationship among the leadership. It is clear that President Obama and Prime Minister have a special affinity for each other. There is certain commonality, spirit that is really at the essentially core of the new relationship, and the new relationship I think is based on the fact that India is a rapidly rising country with full of hopes and aspirations for the future. The United States has obviously some strategic interest in the region we share common cause on many of the global issues, and it is clear that the Prime Ministers concerns, his articulations match very closely with those of the President. I think, it is a new relationship. I think, our two leaders are providing the impetus behind this new relationship that has so much promising potential for the future.

Answer: I think, it codifies one of the things that we are most concerned about is terrorism. Terrorism effects India and certainly tomorrow important day in India and our condolences for all the lives lost a year ago. President spoke about that and he feels deeply about it as we do about our own disaster in New York. So there is a common cause here, that it is not only just about terrorism but it is about proliferation, there are very real effort that the terrorists are making to acquire weapons of mass destructions. The great power we consider India to be one of those, which can on the issues of terrorism, issue of climate and energy and lot can come together and rapidly effect the rest of the world, and if we make the right decisions it will move in the positive way.

Question: What I am trying to ask is, how it would translate into a real action? What will it entail, intelligence sharing…

Answer: Well, as the relationship matures, it does entail a whole degree of cooperation. One is intelligence sharing, information sharing, developing process and cades to interact on a daily basis, weekly basis and, building friendships at all levels in the government than we are talking about counter-terrorism organizations like home land security, the FBI, the police and intelligence organizations, keep track of the goings of these terrorist organizations, and by the way that has already started, that relationship is already developing. So these MoUs are served to focuses on seriousness of the task also the fact that we are going to redouble our efforts and beware of the facts this covers our relationship.

Question: What could be the next step?

Answer: Hopefully as we develop this step, we will be able to, as a result of our bilateral partnership but also in a broader regional context reduce the threat from terrorism, reduce the possibilities that terrorists are skillful and can start conflict between nations and we simply have to understand that terrorism in any form is not acceptable and in particular when these terrorists are trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction.

Question: How serious is that threat, particularly in Pakistan, are you concerned about Taliban… basically there are a lot of advances and they even had the audacity of attacking the army headquarters in Islamabad? That raises security of nuclear arsenal in Pakistan.

Answer: This is something, we raised with the authorities in Pakistan. They have given us the assurance that they are up to the job and the nuclear stockpile is secure. But it is something that we have to work on continually, not just in that region, but all over the world. These terrorist organizations are trying to acquire such capacity. If they get it they would use it.

Question: Are you convinced by Pakistan’s assurances, considering that even their GHQ is not safe?

Answer: We are working very closely with Pakistani authorities. We are reassured that they are taking it very seriously and we are going to continue engaged in this very important.

Question: Tomorrow is the first anniversary of 26 / 11 and after that there has been significant cooperation between the intelligence agencies of the two countries on intelligence sharing. Can you give us specific instances of this on the first anniversary of 26 / 11?

Answer: Well, I think that, I know that there are some ongoing efforts to share information concerning any threats that we pick up that might be of interest to India. And vice versa. I do not want to go into specifics except that there is an ongoing vibrant relationship and it would make both of our countries safer and it is something that we attach a lot of importance to.

Question: One particular case which is in focus right now is the arrest of David Coleman Headley and Tahawwur Hussein Rana by the FBI in Chicago last month who were planning another major terrorist attack in the country. An Indian delegation of investigators were recently in the US to interrogate these two individuals, but they could not? Any particular reason for this and any chances of they being interrogated by the Indian officials in the future?

Answer: The Headley case is in a judicial process right now, and I do not want to say anything that is going to say anything that in any way might compromise it but at the President’s direction we have been very forthcoming with our Indian counterparts on sharing whatever information we have which might be of some assistance to.. it is an ongoing policy. There is quite a bit to go on this particular case. But let me say that that case is a good example of a cooperation that started here and we knew that it had of interest of India.

Question: That is a prime example of cooperation.

Answer: I think that is a very good

Question: Will in the near future, the Indian investigators be given access to them, so that they also know the links may be .. or you have provided enough information to the Indian investigating agencies?

Answer: We have shared, we are cooperating fully, there are certain aspects of our legal system that protects the right of the accused. And in our system, those rights are protected. So we are in process of explaining what we can and can’t do. But we are as a result of the President’s guidance, we are doing as much as we can legally we can do, without jeopardizing the process of the case.

Question: The question of access comes because the plots are related to India. Apparently they had done some rekie in Mumbai, Chennai, and Pun and Cochin and God knows wherever. That’s why I am asking this question.

Answer: I have given you the answer that I can give you. That we will continue to be as helpful as we can be. We also have .. of laws and have certain laws that protect the rights of the accused and the worst thing that could happed that would jeopardize our case. So just let me leave it at that that we are and I believe that the Prime Minister was very satisfied with the President’s discussion on this as we understand. So we are going to do everything we can within our capabilities and respecting the legal boundaries that effect people in the United States and people in India.

Question: Some aspect of their investigations has come out about Headley and Rana and it is said that some elements of Pakistan Army and ISI had links with them, since you are dealing with the case, FBI. Is it true that some elements in the Pakistani Army and the ISI were …

Answer: I understand. All I am going to say that it is a good example of Indian American cooperation. I am not going beyond that. It is ongoing. I do not want to jeopardize anything, but it is a good example of bilateral cooperation. It is something that the President and the Prime Minister discussed and both of them were very satisfied with the outcome of those discussions.

Question: Coming back to the trip here and the Indo-US relationship. What is President Obama’s stamp and yours on this relationship?

Answer: I think, the possibilities are endless. My small role is to interact with my counterpart M K Narayanan, with whom I have formed a very strong friendship in a very short period of time. I have been to Delhi and he has been here a few times, and hope that this could continue. Our job is to enable our two leaders to stay in touch and be on track on the issues that we all care about. We will continue to widen and deepen the relationship of us on a whole number issues that we .. science, climate and security issues, and I think this relationship is has tremendous potential.

Question: India’s relationship with the United States has been going up and up. But in the last one month, there are two issues which have made Indian officials concerned. One was the US-China joint statement, which makes reference to India-Pakistan friendship and China’s “monitoring” role in it.

Answer: I understand

Question: Secondly was India not figuring in the President’s speech, which he gave in Tokyo on Asia. Would you like to clarify on it..that gives an impression that China is playing the role of a monitor of Indo-Pak relationship.

Answer: The President and the Prime Minister spoke about that. We understand the concerns. But it no way it was .. or it .. there is no hidden agenda here. As we understand national sensitivities, we need to be little bit more selective in our words, it was touched on in passing by the two leaders. They understand each other. So there is no …. The matter has been clarified and we understand Indian sensitivities on what you say and what you do not say.

Question: In this relationship, the Indian Prime Minister day before yesterday said China has now become more assertive. How do you see that statement? Is China now more assertive?

Answer: I think China is certainly asserting itself in world. It is competing all over the world for resources. It is a growing economy. There is no question that as you develop you require status, you do become assertive. This assertiveness has to be channeled towards in the right way, as you are assertive and you are doing good things. That’s fine. But if you are assertive in doing bad things, So I think, China is more assertive so we want to make that assertiveness positive

Question: positive and negative

Answer: yes

Question: Did other issues like Sri Lanka, Burma or Tibet come up during these discussions.

Answer: There were so many issues to talk about that the Prime Minister explained. The Prime Minister explained his views of Tibet and Dalai Lama but there were no prolonged discussions of these issues.

Question: One thing, the President did not meet the Dalai Lama, before his visit to China, which was seen as subtle change of strategy. How do you explain that.

Answer: Yes, due to timing and presidential schedule trying to do many things at the same time. If you look at the president’s schedule, he has been travelling a lot, so this decision was taken a few months ago, to … around the visit and … at appropriate time. There is no … over concern for anything except that the presidential schedule we have .. I think 20 Heads of State are lined up and come in the US for initial talks. It was more of a scheduling issue.

Question: How do you see the situation in Pakistan and Afghanistan? Many believe that Pakistan is the main source of terrorism. Terrorists get shelter there and even harboring is done at times.

Answer: I have been working on Pakistan since 2003, when I was in NATO; I was to go to Afghanistan and Pakistan once a month for about four years. Look there is no question that we are at a cross roads in Afghanistan. With President Karzai taking over for his second five year term, and there is no question that the so called safe heavens in Pakistan we are deeply troubled … and we are gratified to the Pakistani Army, in Swat Valley and also in South Waziristan… we will hope that Pakistan has taken a decision to get rid of terrorism from their country and safe havens and we are doing everything in this regard and continuing the safe havens would not only destabilize their country internally, but the region as well. So it is extremely important that all of us support the efforts that they are taking to dismantle these safe havens.

Question: They are taking action in South Waziristan and not taking any action in North Waziristan.

Answer: We hope to get them interested in North Waziristan.

Question: Are you pushing them to go there?

Answer: We believe that for the benefit of Pakistan they have to rid themselves of this insurgency, not just certain ones, but all of them.

Question: As you mention, they are going after Taliban, here again it comes, India appreciates that they are going after Taliban and Al Qaeda, as it is a threat to India also, but then India says Pakistan is selective in its approach – it is going after Taliban and not Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammad, who are actually hurting India. What is your take on this?

Answer: This is relatively new for Pakistan. When they came here in March… for developing the strategy, they went back and started their military maneuvers and so felt comfortable enough to pull out some troops from the Indian border, which we thought is encouraging and we would encourage them to do more and commit the force necessary. I think it is clear that as Prim Minister said India is not a threat to Pakistan. So we want to be helpful in bringing about that kind of confidence building so that Pakistan can take over its internal difficulty and if they do so then I think the region would be much better. The work is in progress and there is a lot more to talk about. It is encouraging. That’s one of the most encouraging things is the fact that they decided to take action and in doing so very impressive.

Question: Do not you see that Pakistan is taking action against Taliban, only because it hurts them, and it is turning a blind eye and even sheltering groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Answer: We believe that it is in Pakistan’s self interest that they take on all terrorist organizations they know are existing and they know where they are existing within their borders. And if they do that will find tremendous international support, much more economic assistance and they will be a safer country as a result of this and the region will be better. We all have an interest in this to make sure that Pakistan does the right thing and we will working hard to collaboratively assist them in supporting them. We admire the fact that they want to do it themselves. So we do not have troops on the ground in Pakistan and we respect that. I think, it’s good and we should encourage them and we should encourage them to take on all terrorist organizations.

Question: We are talking in the context of Mumbai attack, which India says

Answer: Totally understand

Question: a year has passed and there has been no action at all, particularly Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief is still roaming around.

Answer: Here again, the Prime Minister and the President has talked about it extensively. We know, who they are

Question: There is a feeling in India back home that may be US is not pushing them strong enough on Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaat-ud-Dawa as it is pushing them on the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Answer: I can assure you that we have made our position very clear, we continue to have daily interaction, we are doing everything, we can to encourage them to disarm all of them because I said it is in their own interest.

Question: There is a concern in India about the misuse of American aid being given to Pakistan to build capability against India.

Answer: I do not follow that all. I did not understand the question.

Question: American military aid being misused and diverted by Pakistan.

Answer: To where?

Question: Military capability against India?

Answer: No. No.

Question: I think, India has raised this concern again and again.

Answer: There is no diversion of American assets to anything that would be in anyway against the interest of India. We control our technology; we do not transfer that technology.

Question: There is a view in India that there is no proper accountability / auditing of those equipment and other things

Answer: No, no. The equipment that we provide to Pakistan is accounted for and we have end use agreement with them, and .. beyond.

Question: On Iran,

Answer: It’s a fun place. Before you turn to Iran, I should tell you on Afghanistan, we have announced that the President would make his decision on Tuesday and this is something I know, your readers would be interested in

Question: We would be interested in knowing more, are you going to commit troops….Just a follow up on Afghanistan, India has been playing a developmental role in Afghanistan. What kind of role would you like India to have in Afghanistan.. would you like to have some change in India’s role … some kind of non-civilian responsibilities.

Answer: Obviously, there are sensitivities in both India and Pakistan about their mutual roles, but these are regional powers we have to find the right ways to make sure that these countries are comfortable what they are doing as part of our job, we will try and find out, we will need all the help we can get, and we just have to make sure that we have the right kind of … steps that .. does not .. in that country.

Question: A connected question. Pakistan has again and again said India has interfered in Afghanistan and creates trouble there. How do you see this?

Answer: As I said, hype and sensitivities, we appreciate the fact that India can be very helpful in Afghanistan in the proper way and I think, Afghanistan is also going to benefit by its close proximity with Pakistan in certain ways. We just have to make sure that the sensitivities in both Pakistan and India are not exasperated by one country or the other country. We make sure that we do not unintentially destabilize the country that takes away the thing we are trying to do in Afghanistan.

Question: As you are engaging Iran. Iran enjoys good relationship with India. India also enjoys a good relationship with the United States. Do you see India to play, or do you see any role India can play in that?

Answer: I absolutely do. I think, it (India) has a very constructive role. To begin with, India can be helpful in persuading Iran to accept the offer on the table for low enrichment Uranium that is currently being negotiated with the IAEA, this actually was their idea, It was Iran’s idea to do this. We put together a perfectly international agreeable option, I am not sure whether they responded or not, but they certainly have not been clear about them. You know the longer they take, the people draw negative conclusion over their intentions are. President Obama has instructed us to be very patient and give time .. the any time you have Russia, China, the US, Germany and France agreeing on any one thing, that’s pretty remarkable moment in time so we think it is a very reasonable proposal we made, if India could be helpful in commencing the Iranian authorities this is the good that they get and at some point they do not take what is officially agreed and answer to what they raised, then people would start doing negative conclusions, that won’t be good for Iran.

Question: You want India to play some kind of a mediator’s role, like I think, in Burma India is doing something…. Somekind of mediation

Answer: Of course. That would be very helpful to influence the Iranian leadership and I know the two leaders talked about this and we appreciate anything India can do

Question: Have you ever proposed this to India, some kind of mediator role

Answer: I do not know, if we proposed in those terms, but if any country has good relations with Iran and if u have influence, we would love to see the Iranian Government influence in a positive way, help us they come out what their real intentions are their nuclear weapon ambitions.

Question: Do you see, India has that influence?

Answer: You said that you did

Question: I said India enjoys good relationship with Iran

Answer: Perfect, If you have good relationship, that means you have influence.

Question: What about President’s trip to India. Do you have any time frame in mind (not recorded, but on the record)

Answer: The President is wants to take his two daughters to India. So the trip would be planned in such a way that they have their school vacation so that they can travel to India. That’s the one of the consideration for planning dates of his travel to India.

(This interview was taken along with Ajay Kaul, Bureau Chief, PTI during the November 2009 State Visit of the Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, to the US — the First State visit of the Obama Administration’s First Term)